Thursday, November 10, 2005

My Electric Motorcycle

This is my plan to build an electric motorcycle. I've been thinking about how to go about doing this for some time now. My goal is to build a machine that is not just functional but performance oriented yet affordable (for me that means under 4 grand).

I think I now have a package that will work.

I will start with a rolling chassis of a Suzuki GS500E. I have chosen this bike because it is has a fairly modern yet inexpensive design. Also both the bike and its parts can be found very easily. I plan to be able to get the parts for a rolling chassis at a bone yard for under $1,ooo.

So just to clarify the rolling chassis in this case will have everything on the bike except the motor, exhaust, gearbox, and gas tank. The next thing I will do is mount the electric DC motor where the old ICE was. I will be using the PMG 132. You can checkout the stats on this motor here.



The motor will be controlled by an Alltrax controller.


The controller is the piece of equipment that regulates how much power the motor gets. In this case I will not be using a gear box at all so the controller will act as both a throttle and gearbox. However this is one thing I am unsure about. If any of you know more about engineering than I do please clue me in. Will this set up work? It would appear to me that given HP, rpm, and torque curve of this motor a direct drive transmission should be ok.

Anyways, other than minor details (DC/DC converter, instrumentation etc.) the only thing left is the battery system. I will be using Li-ion battery pack with a recharger and management board from PowerStream Power Suppliers .



Because these batteries have seven times the energy density of lead/acid I will need much less room to mount them then if I were using lead/acid. For this reason I will weld a compartment into the same area that the fuel tank was. After that I will fabricate a cover for the batteries that will look similar to the former gas tank. The final product should weigh under 350 lbs and have a performance that is comparable to the original motorcycle - except it will be way cooler.

Sounds cool huh!? Unfortunately I will have to save money for about six months before I can get all the parts. But as soon as I begin work on the project I will be sure to share pics and progress.

118 Comments:

Micah:

This IS cool. Much cooler than those tiny little all-electric cars of years gone by. This would be great for the daily commute.

I wonder what the range of this vehicle will turn out to be? This will be an important issue because of the need to plug-in to fuel up.

I wonder if a hybrid motorcycle is even possible? It's possible in a car because there is room for both the electric system and an internal combustion system. To do it with a motorcycle you might need a side car just for the second system.

Anyway, serious kuddos on choosing such a neat project.

By Blogger Stephen Gordon, at 11/11/05 06:21  

Thanks for the kuddos Stephen. In answer to your question of how many miles I will be able to get I am estimating about 100 miles - plenty for daily commuting and playing. But really it depends on how many batteries I put in and the batteries are expensive. If money was not an issue I could mount enough batteries to give me a range of 200 miles.

By Blogger Micah J. Glasser, at 11/11/05 14:39  

This does sound cool, but I would think twice about mounting the batteries so high. The motor, ( which should work quite well in a direct-drive system ) should be small enough to mount towards the back of the frame, close to wear the gearbox is in the IC set-up, which should leave you enough room in front of it for a battery pack. As you are using maintenance-free Lithium Ion batteries, they can be stacked into several layers in a suitably designed container, and mounted low in the frame. This will allow you to keep the centre of gravity as low, or lower than, the original design, there-by preserving the bikes handling characteristics or maybe even improving on them. Mounting the batteries in place of the current fuel tank will raise the centre of gravity so far that the bike will be really reluctant to stand up after cornering, and could make it very dangerous to ride. At the very best, it will be an absolute pig in the handling department.
Good luck with the build, and be careful.

By Blogger Dragonstaff, at 13/11/05 05:39  

Thanks for the advice dragonstaff, I'll be sure to take that into acount.

By Blogger Micah J. Glasser, at 13/11/05 14:39  

I like the idea of electric bikes, mainly because the payload of cars seems weighed down with things other than the basic motive components and the passenger. That doesn't make sense for commuting.

If you could make a vehicle the size of a motorbike, make it electric, and add a cover to protect the driver from the pavement & the elements, you would have a cheap vehicle that tens of millions of commuters would consider.

By Blogger Ivan, at 14/11/05 10:54  

"As you are using maintenance-free Lithium Ion batteries, they can be stacked into several layers in a suitably designed container, and mounted low in the frame."

Fast swapping of batteries is a great idea to add range without increasing weight. If batteries become commodity items, you could go to what today is a gas-station, and instead of re-filling, rate out your battery and replace it with another charged one.

This might have some problems if batteries are drastically unequal, but this could be solved by having a station maintain versions of popular brands.

The point is that you don't necessarily want a battery that is hard to access.

By Blogger Ivan, at 14/11/05 11:42  

Two issues I can see:

1.  You might not have enough current capacity from the battery to give the performance you want.  The Powerstream prismatic cells only appear to be able to discharge at 3C, and you haven't said what your capacity is.  I doubt that you're using the 60 AH cells at $375 each, because they'd blow your budget; the 20 AH cells can only discharge at 60 A and your motor needs 200 A to reach full torque.
2.  Battery voltage of Li-ion varies about 1.5:1 from zero to full charge.  You may have enough battery voltage to get your required speed at full charge, but not when nearing empty.

Much of this depends on your desired top speed.  You've got to figure out what your gear ratio will be, and from there you can calculate what your motor speed, back voltage and available torque will be at various battery voltages.

BTW, you should fix your comments so that the time-stamp includes the date (Blogger is stupid and doesn't make it the default).  It's under the dashboard in "Comments".

By Blogger Engineer-Poet, at 15/11/05 00:18  

Good luck to you. I will be building mine soon, too. For anyone that wants to build an electric motorcycle, I would recommend looking at the EV album and compare other ppl's completed builds http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/motorcycles.html or check out other bloggers and resources on http://www.electricmotorcycles.net

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7/1/06 21:29  

I second what Engineer-Poet and the prevous poster said. It would really help you to check evalbum and research all the motorcycles there to see what to expect. Also if you check http://www.electricmotorcycles.net you may find some useful information under user blogs under my project blog titled "Kawasaki Electric Conversion Ideas".

I hate to burste your bubble, but heres some things I've found. I wouldn't go
into the project expecting anything more than 30-40 miles tops range, even if you are using Li-ion batteries, unless you have a whole lot of money to buy a whole lot of Li-ion batteries.

I did research into using different battery types and found that the only
practical battery type right now is Sealed Lead acid AGM (absorbed glass matt) for motorcycle applications for the following reasons:
1. They are economical. About double the cost of flooded lead acids, but then you don't want to be douced in acid in case of an accident do you?

2. Less than one half to a third the cost of the next up battery type (NiMH)
when taking into accout battery life, and expected range. This means even though NiMH batteries are supposed to last 1,000 cycles (though its doubtful with so many cells) and provide more range for the same capacity (since NiMH batteries maintain more of their rated C20 rate at higher discharge rates) you are still paying 2 to 3 times as much per mile to drive. Li-ion are even more expensive then NiMH batteries right now but have come down in cost.

3. Peaking capabilities. NiMH rectangualr cells are about 5-10 times their C20 rated capacity, while Li-ion are worse. Sealed Lead Acid AGM are about 15+, and you can abuse them if you want by drawing more with a little harm to life (but who cares, their ceap!).

4. Other issues. NiMH cells aren't as matched as well as lead acid AGM battery cells. Meaning your more likely to overcharge some during charging, and reverse some duirng discharge. This means you need a higher cutoff voltage for NiMH, which means less capacity then what is listed with so many in series.

However, I would really consider using either NiMH or Li-ion if you have a cheap source for them, maybe government surplus. They will provide more capacity for weight, and if you use rectanguar cells then for size also. But I don't think you want to pay $3,500+ for batteries especially when you can build a lead acid
pack for <$500.

Anyway, I also would recommend using the E-tek motor even if your planning to have a 72V system. Its almost as powerful and less than half the cost.

You can't really get a very high top speed and keep good acceleration/range, you have to trade one for the other with a direct drive system. I am personally going to use two E-tek motors and run them in series for slow speed, and parallel for high speed effictively creating a 2-speed transmission. This will allow for better acceleration, top speed, and range, without the bulk of the
mechanical transmission. Your best bet with a direct drive system to keep good
acceleration/top speed is to is to push more HP out of the motor with more
voltage. So you may want to run your PMG-132 motor at 96V and use a Navitas
(SRE)TSE 600-96 72-96V 600 Amp controller. I believe this will result in slightly less of a trade off between top speed and accel/range (meaning you
don't have to sacrafice as much top speed to still get good acceleration/range).

Anyway best of luck with your project, sorry for the long post.

By Anonymous andrew, at 6/2/06 23:54  

Update on NiMH batteries:

I've found some NiMH batteries that initially look to be cost effective and maybe even comparible in cost to SLA batteries.

Their 6-cell NiMH packs rated at 3.3 Ahr designed for RC hobby car use, with an estimated weight of 10.5 oz or .656 lbs each. Here is a link. Based on their price and quantity chart the following would be initial cost for various battery setups:

48V 49.5 amp/hr: 85 packs @ $15.26 each = $1297.10 Pack weight: 55.76 lbs

57.6V 49.5 amp/hr: 120 packs @ 14.36 each = $1723.2 Pack weight: 78.72 lbs

72V 49.5 amp/hr: 150 packs @ 14.36 each = $2154 Peack weight: 98.4 lbs

If anyone plans to use the above batteries I'd recommend buying a few, and testing them through a 500 cycle life with sucessive charges/discharges. Keep in mind the above pack capacities actually transulate to much, much higher capacities if SLA batteries are used. As a rough guss (depending on discharge rate, temperature, and type of SLA used) a 50 amp/hr NiMH pack might transulate to a 100 amp/hr SLA pack in terms of expected range.

By Anonymous andrew, at 11/2/06 13:23  

The above battery weight of 10.5 oz per 6-cell battery is actually 13.2 oz or .825 lb. The above battery setup weights would be 70, 99, and 123.75 lbs respectively. Sorry about that.

By Anonymous andrew, at 11/2/06 14:01  

Sorry about the last two blog posts. After more research, the above battery systems would require battery monitoring systems likely as expensive as the batteries themselves. The batteries are cheap, and may need extensive maintenance to find the bad ones. Bottom like, here are the best solutions right now:

-B&B SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) EVP series. Cheapest. Available in various capacities, beat exide and optimas in power storage density (1.41 whr/in cubed for EVP35-12), but a bit worse in peaking power to weight (169 watts/lb for EVP35-12).
www.powerstream.com
www.zbattery.com

-Exide Orbital AGM SLA. Less in cost than Optimas. available in 12V 50 AH, great peak power to weight(233 watt/lb). Poor in power storage density (1.03 whr/in cubed)
www.thunderstruck-ev.com

-Optima Yellow top. Most expensive. available in 12V 41 AH, 48 AH, and 55 AH. Comparable to orbitals in peak power to weight. Not very good in power storage density (1.22 whr/in cubed for D34)
www.remybattery.com
Check your local distributors

The above batteries all have comparable capacities ranging from 15-19 whr/lb at 20 hr rate, 9.75-12.35 whr/lb at 1hr rate (actual in EV use) . Their cycle life is comparable (300 cycles 100% DOD, 600+ cycles 50% DOD).

By Anonymous andrew, at 21/2/06 13:23  

How is your Motorcycle going Andrew ?

By Blogger Robert, at 8/8/06 19:14  

A very interesting project for sure.
My 2 cents (more like 7 with inflation) would be to keep the transmission. You can extend the useable torque/speed range.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6/11/06 20:25  

Micah, What's the status of your project. I'm on the brink of attempting such an endevor; however, still in the research stage. Or, is it that I'm working on the will power? (smile) Anyway, it would be nice to know if you have started, are in mid-project, or have an electric ride 'currently' on the road!?!?! Thanks.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 21/3/07 22:49  

I have to agree with the engineers on this one. Go with the AGM or similar technology. Although the NiMH are more power dense, remember that finding the ONE bad cell in the pack may not be worth the headache. As one who has spent the last 15 months and alot of hard earned cash on building a hybrid (yes, gas and electric), I can tell you that the battery choice is essential. Take your time. I actually ruptured an Interstate AGM today from trying to draw too much current from it. My bike uses an Advanced DC motor, Alltrax 400A controller, and runs at 48vdc. I got lucky that the small amount of spillage didn't harm me or the bike. Get batteries that can handle the load. Thanks for your time.

By Anonymous John Gustafson, at 7/6/07 03:34  

NiMH are your best bet for power density than Lead-Acid. Also, a single electric motor will give a lot of torque over a very short RPM or marginal torque over a long range, but not both. There are some dual motors you can use, optionally, get two motors, gear them about 4:1 from each other and put the power through a planetary gear connected to the wheel. You'll have to simulate the power curve to find the power ratio through the throttle range - I know there's one online that can do this for you but I can't remember the name of it at the moment. NiMH is easiest to power because recharging doesn't require fancy circuitry. This configuration also allows glide-recharging (where you're going down a gentle enough slope to keep you going), where most regenerive systems will only charge back at th lower RPM range (braking).

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12/6/07 20:37  

I see you are getting ready to begin. This is a big step, and I truly wish you well. There was a question raised by Stephen Gordon as to whethre or not a hybrid motorcycle is possible. Yes, it is possible, and no it is not as hard to build as one would think. I pondered the electric only version, but was not happy about the range issues. When I ride, I WANT to ride, far!, So I embarked on this path. 20 months later, I am almost there. I agree with what Dragonstaff says, keep the weight down low. The Li-Ion batteries are good, but if you are willing to really save and stretch, A123 cells are a good way to go. I too am on a budget, so I understand the costs involved. The A123 batteries are the motive force I am currently saving for on the electric portion of my bike. The ICE portion is just standard fare. Again, I wish you luck, and it sounds like a lot of smart people are behind you, wishing for your success. John

By Blogger John, at 15/10/07 03:40  

Hi Micah, I poste just previous to this. I wanted to show you my bike, so you can see how a hybrid might be built, even though this is not what you are building. i hope this helps those who ask you about hybrid bikes. My url is http://hybrid-hyperdrive.blogspot.com
Hope to hear from you.
John

By Blogger John Gustafson, at 15/10/07 05:21  

Electric Bicycles and Electric Scooters

Elmo The Electric Bike and Electric Scooter Guy

This is an excellent blog for electric bicycles. There are not too many around like this. Thanks for making this such an interesting subject. Oh, by the way, Wired Magazine has a great article on hybrid cars this month. (Jan 2008 issue).

God Bless,
Elmo

By Blogger mark, at 26/12/07 21:33  

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_12/pr1101.htm

Fast recharging batteries could be the solution to the range issue. You'd still have to find the power source for the recharge, but that could be fairly easy. Not sure what the price point on these will be, but they start shipping in March.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5/1/08 19:02  

Hi, my two cents here: you should check out (even if it's a bit far out pricewise) the ZILLA controller, the Z1LV model, which is the cheapest at 2000 bucks. That might sound like a lot but actually it's worth every penny, because it's designed with electric drag racing technology, what that means is that it will output whatever constant voltage and amperage you need to your motor even when the voltage from your battery pack is swinging wildly due to discharge. For this to work, I think you do need to make sure that your battery pack, even at its lowest voltage, will still be higher than the motor voltage, for example in a drag race the batteries might be 300 volts nominal, and going down to 200 when accelerating at full amperage, while the engine "sees" whatever voltage and amperage (and resulting watts) that you want, as long as the voltage is below the 200 value. I have read a lot of web pages that say that this controller totally transformed their vehicle due to using the battery power at its absolute best. Of course it's a bit over the top for a motorcycle but the 1000 amp model is only about 15 pounds so you could fit it in. I think the PMG 132 is an excellent choice it has massive torque.

By Blogger david, at 7/2/08 12:17  

peoples;
reading thru the comments...Robert noted to leave the transmission.
Myself I,m converting a Ninja 250 with a 36V cart motor and have the opportunity to attach a variable pulley belt drive used on heavy gas powered mini-bikes that starts at 6:1 and progresses to a 1:4 power to drive ratio,controlled by a centrificle clutch.Is this a viable drive system to limit current draw and extend the range of my bike.

Zorch56

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1/3/08 14:10  

Won't work with that battery pack (already tried it)...Output current just isn't high enough (limited by bms) it would work with a123 cells however but that costs a pretty penny. Also i wouldn't buy the cells from that rip off site as they seem to be 3-4x as expensive as other places.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 13/5/08 17:05  

It would be verry possible to not use a transmission as an electric motor has its maximum torque at 0rpm where as a conventional motor has its maximum torque much higher. The engine will be able to more easily turn over a larger rear sprocket. I would consider using a dc brushless motor as you can make use of regenative breaking. and if you want to use a123 batteries use the batteries from dewault xrp batterie packs.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 14/5/08 23:06  

I have electric motorcycles / scooters availiable immediately for prices ranging from $2500 to $4000. Top speeds range from 40 mph to 50 mph. They are DOT approved with VIN#. I can ship anywhere! contact Jared at aandjsnackfoods@verizon.net

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 29/6/08 15:17  

I used to race radio controlled cars a lot. You don't want to use Ni-MH, or any other rechargeable dry cells for an electric bike. I see project killing problems with using them. You can't recharge them as many times and still have good capacity as the manufacturers claim. Several dozen cycles and they're shot. Finding weak cells when you're using hundreds would be a nightmare and they will kill the performance of the whole pack. How would you keep them cool? Hundreds of cells in a big pack will overheat and burst. High cost in the long run is also a killer. They just won't last. Use lead-acid batteries as they are up to the job. Live with the bulk and capacity they give.

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